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Thanks Peter, I figured this out yesterday and sent a full report and photographs to Customer Support to the email address you gave. Shame it happened over the Easter weekend. Very frustrating. Cheers, Rob
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04/04/2021 09:20:00
Limey
Posts: 6
Hi Rob,
Sorry to see your issue.
RS do not monitor this forum.
Please contact [email protected] for a response from them.
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Sorry to see your issue.
RS do not monitor this forum.
Please contact [email protected] for a response from them.
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03/04/2021 23:58:00
Peter Barton
Posts: 4663
Hi Junior,
My tiller snapped off yesterday. Please would you identify which modification Mark this was from the attached picture. Mk1, Mk2, Mk3 or Mk4?
Rob
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My tiller snapped off yesterday. Please would you identify which modification Mark this was from the attached picture. Mk1, Mk2, Mk3 or Mk4?
Rob
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03/04/2021 10:37:00
Limey
Posts: 6
Paul - If you would like to dissuss your observations with me please do so via: [email protected]
Kind regards
Jnr
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01/04/2020 12:18:00
Posts: 0
Thanks Junior for explaining the rudder/tiller issues and the efforts RS has made to correct the problems. I wonder if the anti galvanic paste used in assembly tends to break down over time? The tillers I've seen fail also show corrosion of the aluminum casting where the carbon meets the metal.
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31/03/2020 15:38:00
Paul Gingras
Posts: 21
31/03/2020 10:22:00
Chunky
Posts: 136
One "positive" from the tiller stock breaking (as mine did exactly as described before Christmas) is I used my curfew time last week to adapt it into a perfectly fitting light-board pintel mounting for towing...
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31/03/2020 10:13:00
Simon G
Posts: 11
31/03/2020 09:23:00
Posts: 0
Junior, thanks for posting that very useful information. I took delivery of my Aero(1570) in June 2015. Please can you let me know if there is a visual check that I can perform, so that I can determine if I have MK2 or MK3 tiller?
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31/03/2020 08:53:00
Robert Holdway
Posts: 18
31/03/2020 00:30:00
david
Posts: 64
30.3.2020
Hi All
I hope the following clarifies a few points.
• Galvanic corrosion between the carbon and the alloy rudder stock casting.
Corrosion – The carbon tube will swell and split in the affected area. This was addressed by a layer of GRP on the inside of the carbon tube and anti galvanic paste is applied during assembly. These actions were taken 6 months after production started.
Stock failure - The alloy casting can break at the end of the carbon tube. During prototype testing the rudder assembly was only ever used to steer the boat and no failures were observed. Soon after bringing to boat to the wider population it was found that if you climbed in over the transom and applied downward force to the tiller the casting failed. Likewise if during a capsize you fell on or took the tiller extension with you over the high side it also failed.
Upon investigating these early failures I discovered that the alloy casting wall thickness was asymmetric and only a few additional Newtons were needed to cause the breakage. At RS we refer to these stocks as the MK1 and will replace them FOC if they break. The tooling was modified to remove the asymmetric issue. Not many of these stocks still exist in the population. MK1 – 1st 6 months of production
MK2 - Stock same spec as the MK1 but with symmetric wall thickness. This is how the part was originally designed and intended to be. The force required to break the casting was significantly increased. In normal use (used for steering the boat) the part performs. It will however still break if misused. We continued to observe failures within the charter fleet and new owners. MK2 – 1st year and half of production
Mk3 – Same uniform wall thickness as the MK2 but an additional Alu tube insert is used to strengthen the assembly. Again there was an increase in load required to break the casting. We were now up to about 400N being applied to the end of the thin end of the tiller. Misuse could still result in casting failure. MK3 – Bulk of the population.
Mk4 – Tooling modified to increase the wall thickness to over 4mm. Resulted in the carbon tube failing before the casting. No breakages of this part have been observed (apart form the ones I destructively tested) Mk4 – early 2019 onwards
Kind regards
Junior
RS Technical
Reply
Hi All
I hope the following clarifies a few points.
There are two separate issues being mentioned here:
• Failure of the alloy stock casting at the base of the carbon tube.
Stock failure - The alloy casting can break at the end of the carbon tube. During prototype testing the rudder assembly was only ever used to steer the boat and no failures were observed. Soon after bringing to boat to the wider population it was found that if you climbed in over the transom and applied downward force to the tiller the casting failed. Likewise if during a capsize you fell on or took the tiller extension with you over the high side it also failed.
Upon investigating these early failures I discovered that the alloy casting wall thickness was asymmetric and only a few additional Newtons were needed to cause the breakage. At RS we refer to these stocks as the MK1 and will replace them FOC if they break. The tooling was modified to remove the asymmetric issue. Not many of these stocks still exist in the population. MK1 – 1st 6 months of production
MK2 - Stock same spec as the MK1 but with symmetric wall thickness. This is how the part was originally designed and intended to be. The force required to break the casting was significantly increased. In normal use (used for steering the boat) the part performs. It will however still break if misused. We continued to observe failures within the charter fleet and new owners. MK2 – 1st year and half of production
Mk3 – Same uniform wall thickness as the MK2 but an additional Alu tube insert is used to strengthen the assembly. Again there was an increase in load required to break the casting. We were now up to about 400N being applied to the end of the thin end of the tiller. Misuse could still result in casting failure. MK3 – Bulk of the population.
Mk4 – Tooling modified to increase the wall thickness to over 4mm. Resulted in the carbon tube failing before the casting. No breakages of this part have been observed (apart form the ones I destructively tested) Mk4 – early 2019 onwards
Kind regards
Junior
RS Technical
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30/03/2020 12:24:00
Posts: 0
This has happened to me as well (as you witnessed!). I’m told that the newer ones are improved, but I don’t know what was changed. Does anyone have any information on how the new ones are different?
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30/03/2020 02:10:00
david
Posts: 64
Here in Palm Beach, FL, we have had two carbon tillers break inside the aluminum rudder housing in one week. It's understood that carbon fiber in contact with aluminum results in a galvanic reaction so what we have seen is the aluminum is corroding and the carbon is weakening causing the tiller to fracture inside the housing and there is no way to repair this, just purchase an entire new rudder housing with the tiller installed. These are five year old boats, well looked after.
Has RS addressed this problem? Fiberglass is an insulating material and I would suggest wrapping the part of the tiller which fits into the rudder with two layers of glass cloth to act as an insulator between the carbon and the aluminum
This might require reducing the diameter of the carbon tiller by a small amount in this area but it would be negligible and not reduce strength. Any other suggestions or do we all face this problem after a few years of use?
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29/03/2020 22:35:00
Paul Gingras
Posts: 21
