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| Home >> Class Rules - Queries & Suggestions >> OUTHAUL-- alternatives to tying a knot |
Absolutely no need for a bowline. A "knot on knot" is the answer. Much more compact, easily tied and undone and takes less line.
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13/06/2023 00:35:00
Penny Gillett
Posts: 1
Hello together,
I think, that in the past this was accepted due to an "ease of rigging" statement in the older class rules, but I am not 100 % sure.
Once you have adaptet this in the past with the soft shakel and an eye splice, the outhawl line ist to short for a bowline. So it has to be replaced with a new longer one, which is not a big deal, but needs to be done.
At least this is my impression/interpretation.
Can anyone confirm this?
Best regards
Michael
Reply
I think, that in the past this was accepted due to an "ease of rigging" statement in the older class rules, but I am not 100 % sure.
Once you have adaptet this in the past with the soft shakel and an eye splice, the outhawl line ist to short for a bowline. So it has to be replaced with a new longer one, which is not a big deal, but needs to be done.
At least this is my impression/interpretation.
Can anyone confirm this?
Best regards
Michael
Reply
12/06/2023 20:27:00
Michael Heber
Posts: 63
Thanks, that answers my question.
Looking back at past rule documents, my assumption probably came from C.6.1.3 (d), which was indeed deleted with the most recent amendments. I spent some time shadowing David at last year's Europeans, and I would bet real estate that some boats passed measurement using the soft shackle configuration. Either way, it's a shame, because there are definitely quicker and easier ways with cold and wet hands to rig the outhaul than using a bowline.
With "similar products" I was refering to:
C.6.1.3: ...any replacement is a like for like type, weight and size as the Originally Supplied item, and performs the same function and does not modify the effective purchase, or rigging or sheeting position.
and
C.6.1.3 (x): Originally Supplied 16mm and 18mm (and imperial similar sizes) blocks may be changed for similar blocks up to 20mm diameter.
Reply
Looking back at past rule documents, my assumption probably came from C.6.1.3 (d), which was indeed deleted with the most recent amendments. I spent some time shadowing David at last year's Europeans, and I would bet real estate that some boats passed measurement using the soft shackle configuration. Either way, it's a shame, because there are definitely quicker and easier ways with cold and wet hands to rig the outhaul than using a bowline.
With "similar products" I was refering to:
C.6.1.3: ...any replacement is a like for like type, weight and size as the Originally Supplied item, and performs the same function and does not modify the effective purchase, or rigging or sheeting position.
and
C.6.1.3 (x): Originally Supplied 16mm and 18mm (and imperial similar sizes) blocks may be changed for similar blocks up to 20mm diameter.
Reply
18/05/2023 01:00:00
Julius
Posts: 15
Hi Julius,
I think the bowline is the best solution fitting all your own criteria and it fits the class' ethos of being simple, light & affordable.
If anyone can not tie a bowline they could do a half hitch with stopper knot behind it. Knots should not be considered untidy and they are a practical solution.
Please confirm were you get your; "understanding of the class rules is that you may insert hooks or shackles here instead of the knot"
I don't see it in the rules and I think you are refering to a memory of older versions of our Class Rules. The general permission to be able to add hooks was removed as it was not necessary beyond the specific permissions for hooks that we now have elsewhere instead in the rules covering requirements (fittings to attach portable equipment, shockcord attachment hooks.
Also your "similar product" wording is not in the rules, nor is permission to "attach a snap shackle or carabiner" here.
I have checked with our Class' International Measurer, David Rickard, and he agrees that;
- The soft shackle suggested is not a permitted addition
- The hook block suggested is not permitted as not a 'like for like type’ block replacement
The hook and loop idea is also in danger of losing the outhaul inside the boom when it comes off the hook
Reply
I think the bowline is the best solution fitting all your own criteria and it fits the class' ethos of being simple, light & affordable.
If anyone can not tie a bowline they could do a half hitch with stopper knot behind it. Knots should not be considered untidy and they are a practical solution.
Please confirm were you get your; "understanding of the class rules is that you may insert hooks or shackles here instead of the knot"
I don't see it in the rules and I think you are refering to a memory of older versions of our Class Rules. The general permission to be able to add hooks was removed as it was not necessary beyond the specific permissions for hooks that we now have elsewhere instead in the rules covering requirements (fittings to attach portable equipment, shockcord attachment hooks.
Also your "similar product" wording is not in the rules, nor is permission to "attach a snap shackle or carabiner" here.
I have checked with our Class' International Measurer, David Rickard, and he agrees that;
- The soft shackle suggested is not a permitted addition
- The hook block suggested is not permitted as not a 'like for like type’ block replacement
The hook and loop idea is also in danger of losing the outhaul inside the boom when it comes off the hook
Reply
17/05/2023 22:23:00
Peter Barton
Posts: 4681
I'm looking for better solutions for attaching the forward end of the outhaul boom line to the block in the purchase system, rather than tying it off with a bowline.
My most recent solution has been to splice a loop into the end of the line and connect it to the block using a soft shackle.
I am looking for alternatives to the soft shackle that I could leave permanently attached to the block. Criteria are:
It should be
...A potential occam's razor: a 16mm Harken block with integrated hook.
Reply
My most recent solution has been to splice a loop into the end of the line and connect it to the block using a soft shackle.
I am looking for alternatives to the soft shackle that I could leave permanently attached to the block. Criteria are:
It should be
- relatively lightweight (no overspecced hardware)
- vertically compact (to make full use of the vertical trim range)
- Tidy (no knots or lashings)
- Quick to rig and derig
- What have other people come up with so far?
- My understanding of the class rules is that you may insert hooks or shackles here instead of the knot, and that you may replace the block with a similar product, but what about using a block that already integrates part of the solution, such as the very same Harken block with a removable sheave or removable pin, which would allow you to cleanly attach a snap shackle or carabiner without additional lashings, for example?
...A potential occam's razor: a 16mm Harken block with integrated hook.
- Is this legal?
- Has anybody tried this? I would be worried about the rope potentially slipping off in light winds without sufficient load.
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16/05/2023 15:02:00
Julius
Posts: 15
