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Home >> General Discussion >> Entanglement / Entrapment
Two continuous ropes. One for downhaul, one for outhaul. The downhaul needs to have more length of adjustment which is why that one goes right to the bow. The outhaul only needs a few inches of adjustment so stays behind the mast to use less rope and keep it away from the downhaul. A few of us at Island Barn are experimenting with this (and credit Matt Thursfield who started me down this route). I'll try to get some pictures in a couple of weeks.


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13/01/2017 15:27:17
Gareth
Posts: 170
Hi Gareth - thanks for the description and diagram - much appreciated. Keeping all the elastic and slack up the front and out the way makes sense to me. If I'm reading the diagram correctly you have used one continuous line for downhaul and outhaul? That's a very cunning plan!   


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13/01/2017 13:40:47
Neil
Posts: 34
13/01/2017 11:54:36
Gareth
Posts: 170
Don't have pics but will do them in due course, but I will describe it. (I'm away for a couple of weekends). I have two double pulleys one tied to bow top fitting, one to the fittings by the mast. I then take a long thin elastic start with plastic ring then elastic goes  through pulley at bow up and down through the double pulleys (that's just to get enough length in the elastic to give enough stretch at low tension) ending with another plastic ring. Instead of leading the rope through the deck I have a line between the two deck holes with a ring on each end so there is a plastic ring on top of the deck hole.  So now we have rings on the deck where the ropes would have gone through the deck, and two rings attached to thin elastic at the front of the boat.  Lead the ropes through the rings, using the ones at the front to take slack out (one at the front for the downhaul, and one for the outhaul).  It takes a bit of playing with the lengths of rope and elastic. 
 
Rough diagram uploaded. Hope this helps. 
 



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13/01/2017 11:49:43
Gareth
Posts: 170
I too would be very interested to see the above deck option as I would prefer to see my ropes. A utube clip? A diagram?


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13/01/2017 10:56:19
Phill
Posts: 33

Gareth and Peter thank you for your comments

Gareth:   As your elastic and loops across the boat works any chance of a picture of your set up, as I was just going to run an endless line across with no tensioning.   

An Aero eskimo roll sound interesting but think I will try it in the summer first!  Agree that going under water is not scary if you are expecting it - it was the unexpected foot first pull that took my head under that was the scary bit as I was not expecting it.
 
Peter:
Feet were only on gunwale as top of mast was stuck in mud and I was trying to get it out. We have some gloopy mud on the bottom of our lake and I think my late and failed attempt at going over the top resulted in the mast sinking in to the mud.  Hanging of board had not freed it. Was easier to add some bounce with feet on gunwale, and hence it came up fast and flipped when mast came suddenly free of the mud.  
 
Agree front of board will keep you clear of elastics but with down side of when boat comes up it will turn head to wind quicker as your hold on the boat is nearer the front - effectively moving centre of lateral resistance forward. Also I had not thought through the extra fairleads suggestion and you are obviously correct.
 
To be honest in conditions we were sailing in pulling lines around from one side to the other was very low on my personal the "do to" list. Only 3 boats finished the race (all Aero's) and only one of them without a swim. Thanks for confirming across the boat is ok in the rules - I will make that modification.  
 
I had better read capsize corner now - had been trying to think positive and ignore that bit of forum as capsize is bad for boat speed.
 
Seriously though - I know accidents in sailing are very rare but they do occasionally happen and usually involve some form of getting tangled in a line or elastic- admittedly more often than not related to the trapeze.  But just wanted to air what had happened to me so others can be fore-warned of a very unlikely set of circumstances and therefore avoid it. I guess a few folk will be checking there elastic tension as per Peter's advice this weekend.
 
 
 
 
 
 



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13/01/2017 10:18:25
Neil
Posts: 34
Hi Neil,
Sorry to hear about that.
 
- With just a little weight on the daggerboard (an adult just needs to put their arms over it) the RS Aero starts to come upright due to the very light rig and sail. So there should be no need to put your feet near the gunwale for push/lift once the boat is on its side (although if at an angle, yes, those gunwales might be useful).
 
- Always go for the front (blunt ) side of the centreboard, not the tip nor the aft side. The front blunt side is easier to pull your weight up on and as the boat starts to right you need to be able to reach up for the gunwale (or control lines or capsize lines if fitted) and these are much closer in front of the board as the boat narrows from there.
Being in front of the board will keep you a long way from those elastics and the doubled part of the control line under the gunwale
 
- Those elastics are 3mm and ought be changed periodically if the bungee perishes. I think frost can accelerate this.
 
- Check the elastics are an optimum length. They should only go slack when the take up is all on one side. It is then good practice whilst sailing that if you see one side is slack, reach under the gunwale on the other side (after tacking!) to pull some through to even it up, then they should both be tight again.
 
- Adding more fairleads where the elastics are would not work well as it would limit the range of movement of the continuous take up rings.
 
- It is permitted in the Class rules to lead your continuous take-ups across the deck instead of around the hull and some people have gone for this in preference. The class rules are on the documents page of the website, have a check of the wording.
 
See the 'Capsize Corner' thread on this forum for lots of recovery tips and methods;
 
Happy sailing and stay safe! 



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12/01/2017 12:26:03
Peter Barton
Posts: 4681
I have switched to ropes over the deck rather than under the gunnels. Main reason I changed is less friction so the slack automatically centres and never any risk if too much one side rope in the water and too little other side to adjust (so no need to reach under gunnel and pull rope round).  I use elastic and plastic loops to take up the slack. I am wondering about adding righting lines for sea sailing - didn't need them inland but wonder if I might need them with waves.
 
Going under the boat isn't as scary as it sounds. If boat coming up the 'wrong way' (mast to windward so a further roll is inevitable) I've taken to holding onto the plate, going under and back on the other side. It feels crazy at first but once you've done it once it really isn't scary and very quick.  There's a good chance you avoid the second flip and can get going again much quicker.
 
That said I don't think the elastic/ropes are a safety hazard. They wouldn't hold you under water and there's quite a lot of stretch in the elastic.
 



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12/01/2017 12:00:52
Gareth
Posts: 170

While sailing in some fairly strong and very gusty winds yesterday I had my first few capsizes in an Aero that ended up with me in the water. During previous capsizes I had hopped over on the the board and righted the boat quickly.

I capsized with the starboard side in the water and the boat partially inverted with the top of the mast finding the mud. Our lake is quite shallow in places as the water level is low. To right it I held onto the dagger board and put my feet on the underside of the starboard gunwale under the water. At some point before the boat righted one foot/ankle got tangled in the elastic that tensions the outhaul or downhaul on the starboard side. When the mast came out of the mud the boat righted very quickly, came upright, and flipped over on top of me. As my foot was trapped in the elastic on the high side I got pulled down and my head was submerged. I freed myself via panic and brute force – I think somehow kicking out pulled the elastic off my foot/ankle.  With hindsight all I needed to do was go down under the boat and come up on the other side, but my thinking was not that clear at the time!   
Anyway there is a possible entrapment issue here, and although very unlikely to happen it is possible and I think it should be addressed.
 
Solutions: well apart from the obvious don't capsize! and don't put your feet on the gunwale that's in the water; I can suggest two possible solutions:
 
1 The elastic could go through more fairleads or similar at more points under the gunwale.
2 Replace the “round the boat endless lines” with endless ones that run across the boat and under the front of the toe strap.
 
One of the Aero's I looked at before buying had made this second modification and as its simple I'm going to do it as I don't want to risk a repeat. I really hope that is not against the class rules to do this as I can't see that it gives any advantage in terms of sailing or boat speed.
 
Has this happenned to anyone else and has anyone made this second modificaton?
 
cheers
Neil 
 



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12/01/2017 09:44:34
Neil
Posts: 34


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