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sorry Pete you are right - typo on my Aero 5 number.
We are using the Sailjuice numbers at Starcross - but will probably adjust in the Autumn as we do for all other classes.
I just want to make it clear about the impact of the numbers that each club uses on the RYA analysis - because it is often misunderstood. Yes each club should submit the PN they used for their own local race scoring - but unless it is a very different from reality it has a limited impact on the result coming out of the RYA analysis. It is only used to determine the threshold at which "poor performers" (beginners, capsizers etc.) are excluded from the analysis. In theory it could under some circumstances have a significant effect - but I ran some analysis on a big chunk of the data submitted to the RYA and found that in practise it had very little effect. Any club who is submitting returns within +/- 10 points of the numbers in the class rules is not going to be skewing the results.
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07/04/2015 12:30:24
marke
Posts: 8
Some clarity (I hope!) from me;
- Class Rule C.1.3 ought to start 'In all Class Association Organised racing', sorry about that, I missed it. Obviously outside our own organised racing we can not dictate our own PYs. It will get picked up in an edit soon.
- Correct me if I am wrong ,but ...
The 'SailJuice' numbers which I think Mark refers to are here; http://events.sailracer.info/events/user_files/Handicaps-20150203-102916.pdf
They are based on several hundred 'data rows' for RS Aeros available online that I found and directed SailRacer towards in mid Jan, not just the SailJuice series.
So those numbers are as reliable as any currently, and are similar (with a small benefit to the 5 rig). However, they are miss quoted in this thread and should be;
Aero 9 - 1031
Aero 7 - 1061
Aero 5 - 1122
Aero 7 - 1061
Aero 5 - 1122
[Unfortunately the RYA rely on club returns rather than accepting available data sourced for them, hence no RYA PY yet]
- Some of the larger Aero fleets are currently using; on the coast 9=1035, 7=1065 (Gurnard & Lymington) and on small/medium lakes 9=1025, 7=1060 (Bowmoor & Chelmarsh). No 'authority', just that these numbers seem to be working for those clubs so are a good starting point. It is reassuring that these match the accumulated data referred to above.
- Any 'organising authority' is encouraged to locally adjust numbers, so there is no requirement to all use the same for consistency.
- Returns take account of the number used in them.
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06/04/2015 23:24:36
Peter Barton
Posts: 4702
Hi Mark, thanks for the info, I agree that the sailjuice numbers are probably a good reflection - good sailors against other good sailors!! I also appreciate the number will change - I had an early RS500 and the number floated around from 960 - 975 or something. It's just a bit strange with all the numbers foating around and when I saw the class rules, there was actually something definitive - although I know these are not enforcable at club level. I took them to our committee and suggested they made a good starting point. The phantom sailor did mutter about he would write their class rules with a PY of 1100!! LOL. I'm not sure who should be coming up with the numbers - but I think it's important that there is a definitive number that we all stick with. At small club level it's causing a bit of grief and giving the Aero knockers a field day to rubbish the boat.
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06/04/2015 17:30:12
PeteM
Posts: 7
But those numbers are only for inter-Aero rig racing when we are racing as a single fleet - at least that is how I read the rules. As a class we not are allowed to pick our own PNs that clubs must use.
The RYA publishes PNs each year and once we get a number I think you can expect it to move around a little for a few years. I think its going to be hard to say to clubs you have to use the numbers in our class rules rather than the RYA numbers - I can't think of a single precedent for that.
I put forward the sailjuice numbers as they are based on real data measurements at a number of clubs in the UK + the sailjuice handicap events over the winter. They have been updated following the 2015 events. But the ones in our class rules are just as valid - but don't expect your club to stick to them once the RYA publishes a number.
BTW - I used to sit on the PYAG for a few years - and the numbers you actually use to get the results for your racing at your club has a very very limited effect on the numbers that pop out of the RYA analysis of the data they receive. For example a number 30 points difference on the "correct" value will typically have an impact of less than 1 point on the RYA analysis for a boat in the 1030-1040 region. The main thing is to get your club to submit their returns to the RYA so we get a number as soon as possible.
Mark
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06/04/2015 16:42:25
marke
Posts: 8
Hang on - Class rules show Aero 9 - 1035, 7 -1065 and 5 - 1102. I'm already getting stick at my club for changing from 1025 which was the preferred number. Can I suggest we ALL stick to the class rule PY's and that way our returns will all be consitent!!!
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06/04/2015 13:18:14
PeteM
Posts: 7
05/04/2015 09:55:43
Bellboy
Posts: 4
Hi
The Sailjuice numbers are probably the best data around at the moment (they were calculated after this seasons events)
Aero 9 - 1031 (same as D-zero)
Aero 7 - 1061
Aero 5 - 1112
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04/04/2015 15:49:29
marke
Posts: 8
I have just started racing my Aero 5 and would like to know the handicap number I should use at the club as there is no number from thre RYA at moment.
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04/04/2015 10:27:31
Bellboy
Posts: 4
