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It is harder the lighter the breeze is, as in no wind there is no wind to help blow them through so in the extreme it all needs to be done by helm assistance.
The bungy luffs and original rope luffs operate the same. The bungy helps ease the downhaul off more easily when released. The advice is the same for both.
There is a limit to how slack slack is and it is the tack strap not rising above the lower mushroom on the front of the mast.
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20/06/2016 15:00:29
Peter Barton
Posts: 5132
Thanks for the points Peter - quite a lot to think about!
Can you clarify the point about downhaul please - I have a recent sail with the bungee luff cord - are all sails fitted with this? - and does it make a difference to the advice you've given? (You can see where I'm going with this > how "slack" is slack!)
I thought I'd found a sweetspot on Saturday but in even lighter breeze I might be having the same issues.
Tim
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20/06/2016 13:49:16
Xylophone
Posts: 22
To add to the good comments already made;
Set up-
'Just tight, but not taught', if you hold the sail near the batten pocket end and push the batten tip inwards gently the webbing retainers should initially remain tight, until you push harder. I do not adjust them for different winds.
Overly tight battens will be harder to flick through in manouvers. They may also hook the leach hindering the generation of good inverse flow when sailing by the lee downwind. If in doubt then you are likely best slackening them off, but not so slack that they may fall out of the webbing retainers.
Overly tight battens will be harder to flick through in manouvers. They may also hook the leach hindering the generation of good inverse flow when sailing by the lee downwind. If in doubt then you are likely best slackening them off, but not so slack that they may fall out of the webbing retainers.
Kicker/Vang-
With good technique in tacks and gybes a little kicker alone should be enough to flick them every time. This is more a case of just taking the slack out of it so the boom is braced and unable to ride up in manoeuvres, rather than applying any real tension - as you do want that eased in very light winds too.
Technique-
The battens not flicking is a good indicator of needing some better technique on manoeuvres;
Tacks-
a good roll tack involves pulling the boat upright in time with sheeting the sail in. The moment of bouncing your weight down on the new side should be enough to flick the battens (provided the kicker is not very loose).
Wind in the sail will help - having turned through enough angle and the force of sheeting in.
Gybes-
On all gybes you should be grabbing the mainsheet falls from the boom, either all 4 or just the rear two in order to give you a 1:1 pull. This is important to pull the boom across promptly as you pass dead downwind in medium or strong breeze. It is also important in light breeze so that you can give the sail a 1:1 pull to flick the battens as you exit the gybe. With the kicker overly loose the boom will rise and the leach open, then that flick force will not reach the battens at the top of the sail and they might not flick through.
Downhaul-
Tighter downhaul helps the battens flick, as they then have less tension and depth. However, you want your downhaul/cunningham slack in light winds. Pullining the downhaul on before a manouver and releasing it after is one option. Alternatively, if the battens fail to flick you can pull it to fick a backed batten, provided there is a little wind in the sail. By pulling the downhaul upwards and releasing again from the deck in front of the cleat enables it to be instantaneously released again. Pulling the downhaul should never be necessary with a small amount of vang tension and good tecnique, but it is an option available after a bad tack or gybe
Design-
This is not an issue limited to the RS Aero, it is an issue relating to all sails with full length battens.
A 'soft' sail (no full length battens like a Laser) is different to a 'semi soft' sail (some full length battens like an RS Aero) and they are different again to a 'hard' sail with full length battens throughout
The semi soft design of the RS Aero has the benefit of giving us an efficient square top shape whist also retaining the ability to lose power easily when eased.
However it does then require some practice on good tack & gybe technique to have them pop reliably each time, but that is a very similar technique to a good tack or gybe with a soft sail anyway...
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20/06/2016 12:35:09
Peter Barton
Posts: 5132
I had more wind today and since I've increased the cunningham a bit, the batten problem seemed much better. Only one or two times did I need to pump, so I think I've sorted it for now.
Given the bungee cord in the sail luff, it looks like you need quite a bit of Cunningham to reach the "standard powered sail" position for lightish wind: rather more than "just taking the slack out of the control line" approach
Thanks for all advice
Tim
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17/06/2016 17:13:23
Xylophone
Posts: 22
I had the same problem when it was light, and I tried tightening the cunningham which sort of worked combined with a vigorous pump.
But related to this I still had quite a bad sail shape: the leech was hooking and the sail just wouldn't sit right with tension lines. I just couldn't seem to flatten it to encourage the airflow. (It was really really light) What should I try? More cunno ?
Lesley 2000 V-Jet
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16/06/2016 15:14:19
Lesley Hunt
Posts: 5
Thanks David. I'll have to try this. So basically more cunningham than none (which is where I was last night in the tiny breeze at HOAC).
I was just concerned that it still seemed really tight when I raised the sail (big curve in batten looked like it was stretching the leach at the back even though it was "loose" when not raised)
I will certainly try to make a chance to pop down the road to Broadwater soon. A bit tight for time at the mo. sadly.
best
Tim
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16/06/2016 12:50:13
Xylophone
Posts: 22
The battens should be tensioned with the sail not rigged so they are not slack - just a small amount of tension. Once rigged they get enough tension.
You will find they do not pop across easily if you have no tack downhaul (Cunningham) tension in light winds. This is a common issue for ex-laser sailors!! In light kinds you need to pull down hard and then release the Cunningham a bit - and use the kicker to get the right sail shape. Once sailing for a bit this doesn't seem to be an issue anymore and you can let the Cunningham off with impunity....
PS. Five Aeros out at Broadwater tonight. Come and join us!
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15/06/2016 21:49:30
David-at-BroadwaterSC
Posts: 42
Probably need more roll in the tacks. If kicker is really slack you don't get enough drive from the top to make the battens pop when you make the tack. If the don't go a quick yank on the downhaul - grab the sting in the diagonal before the cleat so you just pull, pop, and release in one go.
That said you don't need much kicker in really light stuff. Key is getting the roll tack right making sure you roll over far enough that the pull back up has enough power to pop the battens.
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15/06/2016 18:28:37
Gareth
Posts: 176
I know this one is a bit cold...
really in response to IanF's comments
I went for maiden sail yesterday in 2002 and my second-top batten was problematic. It would pop across in gusts but in very light conditions it sat set on the wrong side, compounding poor flow in the marginal wind.
I came in and loosened it right off, but it was still not great.
Basically, when the sail is down and you're tightening it (sail not in track) it's very loose, but when I haul it up, it seems to get much tighter (longer)
I've yet to push the boat over with sail up on the land to see if there is some issue with the track or whether it's some combination of downhaul and kicker which is introducing a sail shape not conducive to the batten.
Time will tell. It was only my first sail.....
T
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15/06/2016 14:16:05
Xylophone
Posts: 22
I find I need some kicker on even in light winds and that mast bend helps the battens go over. I also roll tack quite hard. Had more trouble on gybe when I have less kicker on and as little downhaul as possible. Again a vigorous roll gybe works.
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17/08/2015 17:22:22
Gareth
Posts: 176
Once the lower batten has popped in the roll tack/ gybe, then just yank the cunningham (in fromt of the cleat) til you hear it pop. then release. I had the same problem today, this worked well and I havent yet loosened the battens which I will do as I think they are too tight for all conditions. the cunningham trick wont work until the lower batten has popped.
emily 1301
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16/08/2015 18:09:59
Posts: 0
Tighten the Cunningham and then give it a good hard yank. That should pp the top Batten over.
Alan.S 1150
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16/08/2015 17:25:46
Posts: 0
Sailed today in very light and shifty airs, with lots of holes. Had difficulty in getting the top battens to pop across. I can't take off much more tension in them. I could do it by releasing the kicker and slamming the boom back, but there must be a better way. Any suggestions?
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16/08/2015 16:36:31
IanF
Posts: 14
