Welcome to the International Class Association website for the RS Aero. Here you will find all there is to know about the RS Aero including the latest news, how to register your boat, and links to relevant documents.
| Home >> Class Rules - Queries & Suggestions >> Electronic Device Reading Query |
You do not need a puck. You can just use your smart phone with Apps like Tracking, LiveView or I-Sail. You can then record your performance and track the course and speed after you sailed.
If you find a way to fix your smart phone visible, you should be even able to see it during sailing.
Reply
03/07/2020 22:40:00
Michael Heber
Posts: 63
Hi Blake
Reply
C.5.1 refers to equipment supplied by the OA not individual sailors. But going to stop this now as maybe its because I'm an old bloke and having been an NJ for over 30 years and currently an International Race Official I'm a bit cynical. I've seen it all - remember cutting the decks off Lasers and taking the weight out? Or more recently the junior sailor with the GPS watch and the VHF in his baseball cap. Consider the hypothetical situation where you suspect that Bad Boy is using his GPS Device to check his distance to the line or tune his downwind angle or speed. You protest him. The PC meet and he says "no way - check my settings" which are of course, by now, as they should be. Protest dismissed. He got away with it (and will do it again).
I agree that what we actually need is a clarification or change of the Class Rules. Personally I would prefer that we did not allow GPS devices at all and stuck to Fluxgate or traditional compasses. Just my two penneth.
P.S. can I borrow the Puck some day?
Reply
03/07/2020 14:41:00
Yotter/Robin Gray
Posts: 13
Yotter;
I'm inclined to disagree; based on setting the device into race mode it is therefore only capable of meeting the class rule.
When in race mode the device can only provide heading information. This link shows the device capabilities from the manual.
The only way the user will be able to come out of this mode is by using a computer, which is unlikely to be the case as I can't see someone taking a computer out on the water.
Regarding your other comment
In this context it no longer takes a few seconds; they would need to have access to a computer which is only possible onshore. If anyone protests then it is very easy to prove they are in race mode as the only function of the device is showing the heading information.
This also conforms to rule C.5.2:
---
The reason I'm contesting this is a valid device when in race mode; is for those that are isolated at clubs with less Areos. This then can be used as a tool to practice, and still remain race legal and fair towards the philosophy of the class.
This means I don't need to purchase additional devices in order to log my course an analyse my races, and I can use the speedpuck when not racing to learn the dynamics of the boats.
Reply
I'm inclined to disagree; based on setting the device into race mode it is therefore only capable of meeting the class rule.
provided that it/they can only provide information relating to the boat’s heading and time
When in race mode the device can only provide heading information. This link shows the device capabilities from the manual.
The only way the user will be able to come out of this mode is by using a computer, which is unlikely to be the case as I can't see someone taking a computer out on the water.
Regarding your other comment
Takes only seconds to change the mode of most of these devices so to prevent them being used for other purposes is unpolicable
In this context it no longer takes a few seconds; they would need to have access to a computer which is only possible onshore. If anyone protests then it is very easy to prove they are in race mode as the only function of the device is showing the heading information.
This also conforms to rule C.5.2:
In addition to the optional equipment referred to in C.5.1, where
stipulated in the SI and where supplied by the Organising Authority, one
or more devices may be used which have the capability to measure,
display, record and broadcast information relating to the boat’s position,
heading, header and lift information, VMG, time, and/or speed. Such
devices will not provide any information or data to the crew during a
race.
---
The reason I'm contesting this is a valid device when in race mode; is for those that are isolated at clubs with less Areos. This then can be used as a tool to practice, and still remain race legal and fair towards the philosophy of the class.
This means I don't need to purchase additional devices in order to log my course an analyse my races, and I can use the speedpuck when not racing to learn the dynamics of the boats.
Reply
03/07/2020 13:04:00
Blake Newman
Posts: 22
In reply to Blake I refer to my earlier post plus:
The Rules state in C.5.1 (a) "One compass (which may also include a timing function) and one additional timing device; provided that it/they can only provide information relating to the boat’s heading and time (current or elapsed)".
The Speed Puck and many other devices can provide other information and is therefore not permitted.
Reply
03/07/2020 09:50:00
Yotter/Robin Gray
Posts: 13
David,
Found out that you can change the device settings via PC, to put it in race mode setting. This setting makes the device only show heading display. (No indicator or speed)
This would make it comply with the rules since the device is only capable of displaying the heading information (logging other data for use when using software in PC), and if doubt there it's easily provable that it's in race mode.
Could you clarify this is within class guidelines.
Regards,
Blake Newman
Reply
Reply
03/07/2020 08:54:00
Blake Newman
Posts: 22
David,
I see so that would technically make the speedpuck illegal for use during races.
I originally brought the speedpuck, as I believed it to be legal if put in heading only mode. I also use it as a training tool to help me learn the boats strengths and weaknesses, since I'm the only Aero at the club (so far)
It's a shame that the rules prevent the devices like this being used where they can be configured to display only certain information for racing, especially since they are designed to do so to meet many class rules.
I have created a suggestion for change anyhow, so that maybe in future we can allow these devices, aslong as they are used correctly.
5.1.A)
One ~compass~ [device displaying heading direction] (which may also include a timing function) and one additional timing device; provided that it/they ~can only provide~ [only displays] information relating to the boat's heading and time (current or elapsed).
Reply
Reply
02/06/2020 23:09:00
Blake Newman
Posts: 22
Thanks everyone. The philosophy of the class is that it is a test of sailer ability and not technology; for example we want people to judge the start line distance and speed, not have it shown on a device.
The answers are found in Class Rules C.5.1 (a) (f) & (g). In summary you are only allowed: (i) one compass and timing device provided it CAN ONLY provide information relating to boat heading and time, (ii) GPS BUT the data can only be displayed onshore after racing has finished, (iii) camera.
Please note that hiding any other feature or having it on a watch is still not permitted.
Hope you are all enjoying some sun and sailing.
Have fun
David
Reply
02/06/2020 19:50:00
David Rickard
Posts: 70
Yotter,
I agree but same could be said with a GPS watch, very easy to sneakily display GPS data without anyone easily knowing.
I think there has to be element of trust to rules and abiding by rules constitutes as fair sailing, breaking them would otherwise see penalties and likely disqualification. It's also the same for changing elements of your boat to be non class specific.
Overall in my opinion it is more fair to have rules that produce the same output, it's the same fairness if devices produce same data output from different input sources as long as they produce equal data.
For example; you can have a carbon or aluminium tiller. They produce the same output during the race but are under the hood different.
Reply
Reply
02/06/2020 18:11:00
Blake Newman
Posts: 22
If the rules permit a GPS device that has the has the capability of displaying information other than heading and time then it will be used for displaying other information. Takes only seconds to change the mode of most of these devices so to prevent them being used for other purposes is unpolicable (Is that a word?)
Reply
I think that the rules need to be tightened on this. "GPS tracking and recording device provided that the data and output is only used onshore by the crew after a race has finished and not during a race" - I don't believe this is strong enough.
Just my two penneth
Reply
31/05/2020 22:30:00
Yotter/Robin Gray
Posts: 13
Does anyone know the rules around the speedpuck modes that are legal for the class.
There are many settings:
Speedometer
Header / Lift Indicator
Heading direction
Max Speed + Max speed over 10 seconds.
The class rules stipulate no GPS based feedback for crew while on water. Although this is also a GPS based device so I'm sure all modes are reliant on GPS. However, some providing like for like info to a normal compass.
Is speedpuck technically illegal in all modes and unusable for races?
What heading based indicators are valid if not the case? Heading dircection and or Header / Lift Indicator.
If the former answer is a yes (illegal device on all modes) then I would like to suggest a change to the rules:
GPS based electronic devices can only be used to indicate heading information only.
For example this device (compass based device) gives exactly the same details for heading information including the wind shift indicator.
https://www.velocitek.com/pages/shift (no longer available but there are similar devices on market)
This device actually being likely more accurate over a GPS based device due to GPS having more inaccuracy. I see no differences between the two devices for these features and used fairly contribute the same amount of value.
Reply
Reply
31/05/2020 17:57:00
Blake Newman
Posts: 22
